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rubberbutton) wrote2007-12-20 06:27 pm
Books and a Slash Survey (you know you want to take it...)
Went shopping today; I wanted to pick up some philosophy books for my dad. I abhor shopping. I’d rather have my kneecaps broken. At what point does anxiety edge out of uncomfortable-with-crowds and into actual agoraphobia? It was packed and I was on edge the entire time, like you might be if they were playing music you loathed really, really loud. I’m tempted to accept the inevitable and embrace my inner hermit, working out a system in which I never have to leave my house à la Twitch City.
On the bright side, books! I got Socrates Against Athens: Philosophy on Trial, which was kind of an impulse and I’m not sure will actually get gifted. *g* Hardcore Zen: Punk Rock, Monster Movies & the Truth About Reality is a book I’m not sure my dad will really appreciate, but seems pretty cool to me—which is one of my greatest flaws as a gift-giver. I tend to give things I want and then borrow them. Oops. I also picked up Plato and a Platypus Walk into a Bar...Understanding Philosophy Through Jokes, which purridot recommended.
On the fandom side of things, I’m kinda, sorta working on meta about Victorian romantic friendships and the appeal of slash—something I was jokingly discussing with Purridot (who is catalyst in all things) but then I got carried away, as per usual.
Assuming you read slash (non-canon, same-sex pairings) at least occasionally...
- Do you prefer slash to heterosexual (both canon and non-canon) pairings? Why or why not?
- Do you prefer slash to canon homosexual pairings? Why or why not?
- Do you have a preference between m/m pairings and f/f pairings?
- How much do you think your own orientation, gender and sexual experience affect your fanfic-reading preferences? Explain.
- Do you read gen fic of characters you slash? Do you read it more, less or about the same as fic with overt romance/sex? Why?
- How do you like sex in slash fic? Is explicit sex a pro or con?
- How did you get into slash and how old were you?
- Anything you’d like to share?
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2. I don't know if I'm 100% clear on the distinction -- I don't think I could choose!
3. I read more m/m than f/f.
4. I don't know. I don't think it really does affect my fic-reading preferences. I mean, I have the same fic-reading preferences as people of all orientations, gender identities, and sexual experience (and my fic-reading preferences haven't actually changed at all as my sexual experiences have changed). And there are probably people out there who are virtually indistinguishable from me in terms of gender, sex, and experience who have completely different reading preferences.
5. Not really. In most of the fandoms I read, there isn't a lot of gen. For the fandoms where there IS gen, it mostly bores me. Just -- doesn't do anything for me, for the most part. (For some reason, people in the House fandom see this as some kind of massive insult, or throwing down some kind of gauntlet. I never felt the need to justify my tastes to other fans until I got involved in that clusterfuck.)
6. It really depends on the story. I enjoy the explicit stuff, but to the point that I think every story needs or won't read a story without it.
7. Torch's (
8. I'm procrastinating writing my DSSS pinch hit! /sharing
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Heh. No, I'm totally with you there. I'm not really trying to justify per se, I'm just curious. I have zero interest in het pairings (with the exception of Spike/Buffy, for some reason...), but I'm also not interested in canon gay pairings. It's actually a pretty narrow window of pairings that do interest me: close, intimate friendships and partnerships that aren't actually romantic. Go fig. So when I ask my flist probing questions, I'm actually trying to figure out more about me. Self-centered, much?
2. I don't know if I'm 100% clear on the distinction -- I don't think I could choose!
Here I'm using "slash" to mean the pairing of two characters who don't have any sexual attraction (outside of subtext), like House/Wilson. Sure, we think they've got the hots for each other, but I don't think that's the actual conclusion we were supposed to come to. By "canon" pairings I mean ones where a romantic relationship exists within the source material itself, like Jack/Ennis.
For the fandoms where there IS gen, it mostly bores me.
I'm glad you said it first. Yeah, gen is a lot like watching paint dry--does that make me shallow?
8. I'm procrastinating writing my DSSS pinch hit! /sharing
I'm so glad I could help with your procrastinatory endeavors. :)
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I actually got into fandom by way of a het pairing; I was a shipper back in the early days of the X-Files (back when "shipper" just meant you liked Mulder/Scully). Of course, that wasn't a canon pairing at the time.
It's actually a pretty narrow window of pairings that do interest me: close, intimate friendships and partnerships that aren't actually romantic.
That makes sense. It sounds like you're more attracted to subtext than to overt text, to having to "do the work" rather than just take in the eye and brain candy. I think a lot of people are like that. When Queer As Folk came out (both the UK and US versions) there were a lot of veteran slashers who just weren't interested, probably far more than the number who were all, "woohoo! boys makin' out on screen!" Me, I'm lazy, and I like my eye and brain candy, and I also have a huge thing for established relationship stories, so there are a lot of canonically queer relationships that really appeal to me. I suppose -- and I might actually be answering one of your questions, wow! -- that as a queer-identified person, I might also just enjoy seeing people like me on my TV screen, navigating some of the same situations I've been in (and might find myself in, someday), being out and visible.
I'm glad you said it first. Yeah, gen is a lot like watching paint dry--does that make me shallow?
If it does, then we're in good company.
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Well, now that I think about it, I guess I did, too. The first fanfiction I can remember reading was Sarah/Jareth from Labyrinth. Dude, I still think it's hot. *g*
When Queer As Folk came out (both the UK and US versions) there were a lot of veteran slashers who just weren't interested
Yeah, that's why I was wondering about whether people prefer non-canon to canon. My current theory (regarding my own preferences, if no one else's) is that relationships (both gay and het) that are romantic from the outset (on the show) are less interesting because they tend follow pretty narrow templates that I've seen a bajillion times before.
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1. I prefer following canon but I'm open to good non-canon pairings (same-sex or otherwise) if the characterisation is fair and if they provide novel character analysis. Slash/gen/het/shipping as wishfulfilment has never been my thing. Avoiding shipping tends to make the fandom experience a rather odd one.
2. See 1.
3. Well-written f/f is awfully rare so I suppose I prefer m/m but it's mostly an issue of quality.
4. A year ago I would have said 'not a thing' but I've revised my opinion recently. I think my orientation plays a definite role - or rather, my experiences as far as my orientation goes plays a role. I prefer to avoid stereotypical behaviour or characterisation and I abhor labels. I've seen both good and bad in the fandoms I've passed through over the years. The good is when writers (of all orientations) treat the matter with respect and insight – treat the characters as people who react fundamentally the same, irrespective of orientation. The bad is when the orientation of a character becomes the single defining trait. It's unrealistic not to mention disrespectful. The acid test is the dreaded 'coming out' story. I've been a part of fandom for 15 years and I've read perhaps a handful coming out stories that didn't make me want to throttle the author-person.
5. I usually don't ship at all so it's not really a problem for me.
6. I love erotic fiction but most of the so-called erotic fan fiction I've read has been wildly unrealistic and, quite frankly, badly written. There seems to be a tendency for some writers to want to smash their favourite (male) characters together at all cost - apparently, if one man is sexy then two is just short of perfection. Well, if getting those two people together involves full-frontal character lobotomies then no, I don't like explicit sex at all. Cryptictac and asynca have both managed good slash with explicit sex, but it's hardly erotic.
7. I have no idea. '94-'95 perhaps? So, mid-twenties. I didn't read slash back in the 'zine days.
8. As if #4 wasn't probing enough *g*
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Heh. *braces self*
Avoiding shipping tends to make the fandom experience a rather odd one.
I'll bet. :P It's a novel idea for me, definitely. What do you look for in fic? You keep close to canon pairings--do you prefer fic that keeps as close to the media in format and tone and such?
6. I love erotic fiction but most of the so-called erotic fan fiction I've read has been wildly unrealistic and, quite frankly, badly written.
Oh god, yeah. There's no badfic like erotic badfic. I'm guessing that people aren't holding to the old "write what you know" adage. *g*
8. As if #4 wasn't probing enough *g*
Are you sure? Confessions? Maybe some deep, dark secrets? :D
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2. Generally, yes. Even disregarding the slash element, there are a number of different ways different writers can perceive and portray the same characters. Plus, my preference for fics runs to first time fics, so I love reading different ways of establishing the relationship, which you can't have with canon.
3. M/M, which I sort of answered in #1. I have yet to read a F/F fic. Not saying I won't ever, just not what I think of first.
4. As a (mostly) straight female, I prefer men, so therefore prefer men in my fic. Nothing else I can think of.
5. I occasionally read gen, but no where near as often as other types. Usually I'll only read gen if it has an interesting hook, but otherwise my viewpoint is if I wanted to read gen I'd just watch the show/movie/read the book.
6. As often as possible. Explicit sex is a definite pro. I tend to scan through communities looking for the holy grail that is NC-17 and disregard everything else.
7. I think I was 19. I read the wonderful Snarry fic The Mirror of Maybe
8. I haven't had the courage to write any slash for any of my fandoms. It's hard to live up to the expectations of how other people see the characters. Lately, however, I've been running my own original slash pairing in a D&D based roleplay message board (Actually, they've just become a threesome in game. ;P Good times.) I look forward to posting some actual fic with them quite soon.
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Heh. Yeah, that never gets old, does it? *g*
my viewpoint is if I wanted to read gen I'd just watch the show/movie/read the book.
That's sort of how I look at it, too.
It's hard to live up to the expectations of how other people see the characters.
You should try anyway! Besides, the only way to get better is practice... :P And the world always needs more slash.
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Survey! You probably know my opinions already, though, so this will be boring.
1. I like canon pairings if they have have the same kind of tension and angst leading up to their getting together that fanfic thrives on. I like any pairing of people who are "soul mates" -- who are just so good together. It doesn't even have to be sexual (e.g., I loved Mulder/Scully when they were just "buddies", and I don't mind them as a couple). In these cases hetero is fine (e.g. Mr. Darcy/Elizabeth Bennet or Odysseus/Penelope). If House/Wilson were canon I would like it. But only if it happened in the season finale and the producers couldn't wreck it!
2. As per 1.
3. I am just drawn towards m/m. I haven't felt the urge to read f/f, although I might if the right pairing came along, for the same
4. I think soul mates can be any gender combination (doesn't Plato talk about that in the Symposium). Possibly my being straight might explain why I haven't delved into f/f slash.
5. I like gen fic if it is angsty. (I am actually a happy person in real life, more or less, honest!) Or amusing crack!fics. I don't see why a story can't be gen and also be exciting, thrilling, honest, amusing, or heart-wrenching.
6. Explicit sex is not necessary. In fact, I think a simple touch or look (in written stuff or onscreen) can be far more erotic than a detailed physical description. A lot of slash writers are very clinical. However, I once read an amazingly hot "Ocena's 11" fic that set up, but never actually described, the erotic parts. You'd swear you'd read an NC-17 story only to go back and realize that you hadn't.
7. I think I loved "romantic friendships" (like the Victorian kind you describe) as long as I can remember. It wasn't until later in life that I discovered slash. But I think slash can be a way of legitimizing a romantic friendship -- ensuring that no woman is going to become more important to one of the boys than their friendship.
8. You MUST watch the film Master and Commander. It is a wonderful buddy flick :D
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That's a good point. Just so often in movies the relationship ends on a happily ever after note, bleh. With TV, the relationship goes well for maybe four episodes before it crashes and burns (see: they Stacy Effect), which is almost as boring as happily ever after.
I think I loved "romantic friendships" (like the Victorian kind you describe) as long as I can remember.
I have a good friend who says that she was interested in male friendships since she was six, and long before she made the connection that they could (or might want to) have sex. Though I think I didn't get into slash until I was a teen, it really interests me that it can have such a basic, visceral appeal for some of us. There's something profound about it...I'm just not sure what. *g*
You MUST watch the film Master and Commander.
Aye, aye, Captain! :D
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2. Nope. I don't really see the difference between the two, though I acknowledge that canon homosexual relationships are usually rife with stereotypes and little to no sexual activity.
3. I prefer m/m when I'm feeling sentimental or want a good read, and I like f/f when I want some down and dirty smut.
4. It has a big affect. I'm bisexual, so I like the men with the men and the women with the women and when they mix.
5. I like gen fic and read it when I can, but often it either doesn't exist, is written poorly, or the writer has a major superiority complex because he or she is a 'speshul snowflake' for writing gen while the rest of us peons like icky sex. But yeah, I do like gen--the best gen stories are like episodes from the show!
6. I like explicit sex. And I like non-explicit sex. Depends on the writer and my mood.
7. I was probably about fourteen, or maybe a little younger, and I thought it was kinky that Obi-Wan called Qui-Gon "master" all the time. Hee. And then I found a slash archive, read a few stories, got offended, left a flame *facepalm*, and then went back the next day and read more. Thus a slasher was born.
8. That I like it best when everyone gets along. *warm fuzzies*
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*gigglesnort* Yeah, and I loathe it movies where attractive (but personalityless) female love interests are thrown in, just because.
I acknowledge that canon homosexual relationships are usually rife with stereotypes and little to no sexual activity.
Ha. Why have sex in your bedroom when you can redecorate it?
I like the men with the men and the women with the women and when they mix.
Well, you're certainly easy to please. :P It's a good way to be--I should know.
And then I found a slash archive, read a few stories, got offended, left a flame
You can't know how delighted that makes me. Inside every puritanical harpy is a hardcore slasher just waiting to get out. :DDD
That I like it best when everyone gets along. *warm fuzzies*
Aw, me too. *joins in on the warm fuzzies*
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Ha. Why have sex in your bedroom when you can redecorate it? Of course, if you redecorate it, you can have sex on every single new piece of furniture...er. *g*
Well, you're certainly easy to please. :P It's a good way to be--I should know. Heh. It's good to be shallow as hell, even though I'm mostly a look-don't-touch person in real life. *g*
You can't know how delighted that makes me. Inside every puritanical harpy is a hardcore slasher just waiting to get out. :DDD That's why I love newbies! To think of all the little perverted me's out there, hee.
Aw, me too. *joins in on the warm fuzzies* God, I just...I love fandom. Yay fandom!